[ASAP] Having been in a diocese....

Fri Dec 11 14:02:23 CST 2015

Good afternoon everyone,     Before moving to the Nashville area, I lived in Upstate NY within the Diocese of Syracuse led by Bishop Skip Adams. We were one of the first dioceses to perform same sex marriages. I can't say actually what liturgy was used, but they were performed. They were normally performed with a degree of hush as at one point several churches stood in front of our church protesting.      I have no issues in same sex marriages. I believe Love trumps everything. I am divorced, but yet my ex's brother and his significant other are in a loving and caring relation for some 25 years. Probably way more functional than mine was with my ex. God calls us to love and care for each other. Bring out the best in each other, take care of each other. There are way too many people in this world, especially Christians who love to pass judgement, love to preach on what is moral, but yet they can't see how dysfunctional their lives are. They have a very narrow vision of love. 

Ray
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: A few questions. (David Phillippi)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:29:05 -0600
From: David Phillippi <phillippi1406 at gmail.com>
To: Ben Whitehouse <whitehba at yahoo.com>
Cc: asap at episcopallists.com
Subject: Re: [ASAP] A few questions.
Message-ID:
    <CAEsr7TW-jq33NuLrcAOcwUujfG-Sorw4ceGePTNs=AWfcant=Q at mail.gmail.com>
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Thank you Ben and Ann for your reply. I'm slowly getting a picture of the
challenge ahead of us.

Given that we are only asking for the option for priests to perform
weddings, I wonder if we could make a strong case that inclusion would
actually help protect established institutions. Now that marriage equality
is a reality, the Episcopal Church is one of the few places that people can
go who want to make such a commitment within a Christian community, or who
want to be in community with those who do. Refusing to allow *any* priest
to perform the ceremony is a drag on growth within the diocese. And those
who are worried about losing members over this, could continue to practice
exclusion...we would welcome those members at our churches :-).

David

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Ben Whitehouse <whitehba at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hadn't seen an answer to David's questions and I was hoping someone with
> more knowledge than what I've been able to gather on this process would
> respond first- so please reorient me if I'm misstating anything
>
> 1. Short of the Bishop changing his mind, what else could effect change? *A
> strong showing of displeasure at the diocesan convention can't hurt.
> Getting the convention to vote for Henry Walker's resolution that was
> circulated here a few days ago is a good way of showing that. Also, getting
> like minded clergy and lay members elected to leadership positions (like
> bishop and council) within the diocese also would be helpful. I would hope
> diocesan convention delegates would inquire of candidate for these diocesan
> leadership positions their position on this issue. *
>
> Could the National Church change its mind and require all dioceses to
> allow priests the option of administering this sacrament? * It can but
> only at the next general convention in 2018. I believe that the 2017
> diocesan convention will elect the deputies for the 2018 general
> convention. Working to elect deputies who support all sacraments for all
> people is important step too. *
>
> 2. Who else needs convincing? How much support is there for the Bishop’s
> decision in the larger Diocese?* I think the consensus is that this is
> very conservative diocese. I've already heard of leaders from one local
> parish declaring that under no circumstances would same sex weddings be
> conducted there. The best we can realistically expect is similar to what
> neighboring dioceses have done which is to call on each parish to go
> through a discernment process to decide if they were going to allow these
> liturgies to be used. I don't think it's realistic to expect even a
> majority of parishes in the diocese would be open to conduct same sex
> weddings. For now we at least need to work to open a path for parishes and
> chapels that want to celebrate all marriages can do so, and equally as
> important, for clergy that are resident or working in this diocese to be
> free to administer the sacrament of marriage to a same sex couple without
> fear of retribution from the bishop. *
>
>
> *The diocese has already lost several parishes (including the one that
> used to occupy the building where the bishop's administrative office now
> sits) who have left as the episcopal church has gotten more progressive.
> We've also had several whole dioceses break off and leave the national
> church. (South Carolina, Fort Worth). I'm sure one of the main arguments in
> opposition is fear that we could lose more parishes and members who no
> longer would want to be a part of this diocese. Perhaps some may be worried
> that if the bishop did allow for these sacraments, the diocesan convention
> could likewise vote to leave the national church. *
>
>
> *That being said - I am also very frustrated because with these kinds of
> controversies- the conversation will quickly turn toward protecting
> established institutions and away from recognizing the people that are
> harmed. At the same time, institutions don't just spring up overnight and
> it's the nature of this church to work together in spite of profound
> disagreement. *
>
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