[ASAP] Further Reflections on Approach

cwcmlb at comcast.net cwcmlb at comcast.net
Wed Dec 9 16:19:30 CST 2015 

As someone who has attended several Diocesan Conventions and the Special Convention where John Bauerschmidt was selected, I have a few points I would like to add: 

1. Based on the reactions expressed at various post 2003 Diocesan Conventions and the Special Convention that selected Bishop Bauerschmidt, the majority of lay people in the Diocese appear to support Bishop Bauerschmidt, and they advance the following arguments in support thereof: (a) scripture (particularly Genesis and Matthew 19); (b) tradition as expressed in BCP; and/or (c) unity within Anglican Communion, which has opposed the US Church on this issue to date. Each of these points is worth questioning and discussing. There also appears to be an emotional component for some as well. Oddly, since becoming Bishop of TN, John Bauerschmidt has had to discipline the anti-national church element, culminating in the lawsuit against St. Andrews. 

As has been noted, Bishop Bauerschmidt has been a leading voice of opposition to the national church on this issue and views the role of the church as counter-cultural. So, if Bishop Bauerschmidt were to simply change his mind, he could face an even larger revolt from what appears to be the majority within the Diocese that voted him into office largely on this issue, and he would have to reverse himself on the carefully crafted positions he has publicly taken. 

2. To some degree by becoming Episcopalians we have placed some value on (a) an organized church structure and the associated processes that come with that, and/or (b) being in a larger (e.g. diocesan/national/global) church community that attempts allow for disagreement and dialogue. 

3. As a current member of B & C, I am not sure I am in agreement with Ben Whitehouse's suggestion of block voting over a single issue for several reasons. First, in 2004, the "conservatives" came to to the Diocesan Convention with a a pre-approved slate and block voted anyone who remotely supported the national church position on Gene Robinson and SSM out of office in favor of their candidates, including deputies to General Convention. Aside from the fact we may come out on the losing end if we engage in a head to head strategy over elected offices, it becomes divisive and was very divisive and unloving when the "conservatives" did it in 2004. Second, speaking for B & C, we primarily oversee the financial affairs of the Diocese, and I don't think my presence (or the presence of others that may agree with me) has affected the Bishop's views in the least. Third, I have found that folks that get elected to boards to advance a single issue can be ineffective board members because they have no interest in the remainder of the matters that need to be managed effectively. Having said that, it would be useful to get folks who support the national church elected to go to General Convention, provided they understand that it is a two week commitment with other less controversial issues to be addressed. And Henry Walker's resolution is also a good way of at least advancing the dialogue with the Diocese. 

Thus, I agree with what Henry, Hal Cato and others have said. Despite what appears to be a historical lack of dialogue from Bishop Bauerschmidt with the laypeople of the Diocese on this issue, motives or opinions that are disputed or questioned, and a sense that this issue has been under consideration long enough, the best approach appears to be to engage both the Bishop and his supporters in a continued dialogue with questions and examples directed to challenge their assumptions and arguments opposing the national church position. Moreover, we should remember that we are members of a church community where we should remember to love each other and others, including those with whom we disagree. But, doing nothing is not an option. 

Charlie Cook III 

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Today's Topics: 

1. Re: worth reflecting upon (Jane Hardy) 
2. Next meeting (lawrence_b_c at comcast.net) 
3. Re: Next meeting (Ann Van Dervoort) 
4. Re: worth reflecting upon (Ann Van Dervoort) 


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 09:22:12 -0500 
From: Jane Hardy <janehardy0404 at gmail.com> 
To: Hal Cato <hal at thistlefarms.org> 
Cc: "asap at episcopallists.com" <asap at episcopallists.com> 
Subject: Re: [ASAP] worth reflecting upon 
Message-ID: <9A16E8A2-E373-43AD-92E5-CD1E17F86CB6 at gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 

Hal, this is brilliant! 
Thanks so much for your leadership! 
Jane 

> On Dec 9, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Rebecca Taylor via ASAP <asap at episcopallists.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hal, 
> 
> What a beautiful, brilliant and striking approach. Excellent food for thought. 
> Thank you for sharing. 
> 
> Becky 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2015, at 7:18 AM, Hal Cato via ASAP <asap at episcopallists.com <mailto:asap at episcopallists.com>> wrote: 
>> 
>> I saw this Seth Godin post <http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2015/12/making-a-new-decision.html> earlier this morning and it struck a chord for this conversation, as well as reminded me of a something I heard years ago from Diane Nash. 
>> 
>> Making a new decision <http://feeds.feedblitz.com/~/127344575/0/sethsblog~Making-a-new-decision.html> 
>> It's almost impossible to persuade someone that he's wrong. Almost impossible to make your argument louder and sharper and have the other person say, "I was wrong and I will change my mind." 
>> Far more effective: Help someone make a new decision, based on new alternatives and a new story. 
>> 
>> Arnold <http://feeds.feedblitz.com/~/t/0/0/sethsblog/~https://m.facebook.com/notes/arnold-schwarzenegger/i-dont-give-a-if-we-agree-about-climate-change/10153855713574658/> got it right in this passionate invitation to (re) think about our future. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On a side note: I remember listening to Diane Nash on a panel at the Downtown Library years ago commemorating an anniversary of the Nashville sit-ins. She was talking about her decision to not jump into a brewing debate she saw heating up on the steps of city hall in 1960 as she and many others marched towards the Mayor’s office. Instead, she chose to ask Ben West a simple question--“Mayor West, do you feel it is wrong to discriminate against a person solely on the basis of their race or color?”—that resulted in integrated lunch counters within days: Diane’s advice to the young people I had taken to hear her that morning stuck in my mind ever since: when dealing with injustices, always remember that questions are far more powerful than statements. 
>> 
>> 
>> Gratefully, 
>> Hal 
>> 
>> Hal Cato, CEO 
>> THISTLE FARMS 
>> 5122 Charlotte Pike 
>> Nashville, TN 37209 
>> 615.364.3273 
>> hal at thistlefarms.org <mailto:hal at thistlefarms.org> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> ASAP mailing list 
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>> http://episcopallists.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/asap 
> 
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Message: 2 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 14:44:20 +0000 (UTC) 
From: lawrence_b_c at comcast.net 
To: "" <asap at episcopallists.com> 
Subject: [ASAP] Next meeting 
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Message: 3 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 08:59:42 -0600 
From: Ann Van Dervoort <annvdv65 at gmail.com> 
To: lawrence_b_c at comcast.net 
Cc: asap at episcopallists.com 
Subject: Re: [ASAP] Next meeting 
Message-ID: 
<CAAVE1-5TQQr8SMoh-tPN0s68=q6gUd+aGM-+NFXOUxTS5u7pbg at mail.gmail.com> 
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I am here on that date. Gone later in the week. Ann v. 
On Dec 9, 2015 8:45 AM, "Lawrence Blank-Cook via ASAP" < 
asap at episcopallists.com> wrote: 

> We had originally planned to have our next meeting in January. Would 
> January 4th be too early or not soon enough? 
> 
> Peace. 
> Lawrence 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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Message: 4 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 09:03:04 -0600 
From: Ann Van Dervoort <annvdv65 at gmail.com> 
To: Jane Hardy <janehardy0404 at gmail.com> 
Cc: asap at episcopallists.com 
Subject: Re: [ASAP] worth reflecting upon 
Message-ID: 
<CAAVE1-56Jky-NpWs-DHv-r=50+DnrwmQgD5xs+WZ7LJzruSGBQ at mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 

Amen!! Av 
On Dec 9, 2015 8:23 AM, "Jane Hardy via ASAP" <asap at episcopallists.com> 
wrote: 

> Hal, this is brilliant! 
> Thanks so much for your leadership! 
> Jane 
> 
> On Dec 9, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Rebecca Taylor via ASAP < 
> asap at episcopallists.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hal, 
> 
> What a beautiful, brilliant and striking approach. Excellent food for 
> thought. 
> Thank you for sharing. 
> 
> Becky 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 9, 2015, at 7:18 AM, Hal Cato via ASAP <asap at episcopallists.com> 
> wrote: 
> 
> I saw this Seth Godin post 
> <http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2015/12/making-a-new-decision.html> earlier 
> this morning and it struck a chord for this conversation, as well as 
> reminded me of a something I heard years ago from Diane Nash. 
> Making a new decision 
> <http://feeds.feedblitz.com/~/127344575/0/sethsblog~Making-a-new-decision.html> 
> It's almost impossible to persuade someone that he's wrong. Almost 
> impossible to make your argument louder and sharper and have the other 
> person say, "I was wrong and I will change my mind." 
> 
> Far more effective: Help someone make a new decision, based on new 
> alternatives and a new story. 
> 
> Arnold 
> <http://feeds.feedblitz.com/~/t/0/0/sethsblog/~https://m.facebook.com/notes/arnold-schwarzenegger/i-dont-give-a-if-we-agree-about-climate-change/10153855713574658/> got 
> it right in this passionate invitation to (re) think about our future. 
> 
> On a side note: I remember listening to Diane Nash on a panel at the 
> Downtown Library years ago commemorating an anniversary of the Nashville 
> sit-ins. She was talking about her decision to not jump into a brewing 
> debate she saw heating up on the steps of city hall in 1960 as she and many 
> others marched towards the Mayor’s office. Instead, she chose to ask Ben 
> West a simple question--“Mayor West, do you feel it is wrong to 
> discriminate against a person solely on the basis of their race or 
> color?”—that resulted in integrated lunch counters within days: Diane’s 
> advice to the young people I had taken to hear her that morning stuck in my 
> mind ever since: when dealing with injustices, always remember that 
> questions are far more powerful than statements. 
> 
> 
> Gratefully, 
> Hal 
> 
> Hal Cato, CEO 
> THISTLE FARMS 
> 5122 Charlotte Pike 
> Nashville, TN 37209 
> 615.364.3273 
> hal at thistlefarms.org 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> ASAP mailing list 
> ASAP at episcopallists.com 
> http://episcopallists.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/asap 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> ASAP mailing list 
> ASAP at episcopallists.com 
> http://episcopallists.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/asap 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> ASAP mailing list 
> ASAP at episcopallists.com 
> http://episcopallists.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/asap 
> 
> 
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